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	<title>Comments on: Council, Shmouncil!</title>
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	<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/</link>
	<description>A daily round table on the tech industry with experts and callers from all over the globe. Join us as we pick apart the news and get to the meat of what\'s happening out there.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Answers Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Big Co’s to Big Co’s We have no idea….. Share?</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-491592</link>
		<dc:creator>Answers Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Big Co’s to Big Co’s We have no idea….. Share?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-491592</guid>
		<description>[...] via Jeff Jarvis. Bit New to gong in likewise and feature this is a yesterday&#8217;s intent (Alec said that and I feature more here, here, and here with enthusiastic comments.) I hold organizations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] via Jeff Jarvis. Bit New to gong in likewise and feature this is a yesterday&#8217;s intent (Alec said that and I feature more here, here, and here with enthusiastic comments.) I hold organizations [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Big Co&#8217;s to Big Co&#8217;s We have no idea&#8230;.. Share? &#124; stuart henshall</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-487356</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Co&#8217;s to Big Co&#8217;s We have no idea&#8230;.. Share? &#124; stuart henshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-487356</guid>
		<description>[...] Blog Council via Jeff Jarvis. Bit late to chime in too and say this is a yesterday&#8217;s idea (Alec said that and I read more here, here, and here with great comments.) I conclude organizations must [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blog Council via Jeff Jarvis. Bit late to chime in too and say this is a yesterday&#8217;s idea (Alec said that and I read more here, here, and here with great comments.) I conclude organizations must [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Community Guy - Jake McKee &#187; Blog Council Feedback Roundup</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-479653</link>
		<dc:creator>Community Guy - Jake McKee &#187; Blog Council Feedback Roundup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-479653</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael Savoie: Being a blogger myself, as well as being a blogger for a corporation (RBC), I would say that yes, while this council seems like a bunch of guys in suits getting together to talk strategy, personally, I would appreciate being able to get together in this kind of environment (keep in mind that I’m not the guy in the suit, I’m 22, and a computer engineer by trade… There are no marketing wheels turning in my head). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Savoie: Being a blogger myself, as well as being a blogger for a corporation (RBC), I would say that yes, while this council seems like a bunch of guys in suits getting together to talk strategy, personally, I would appreciate being able to get together in this kind of environment (keep in mind that I’m not the guy in the suit, I’m 22, and a computer engineer by trade… There are no marketing wheels turning in my head). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jake McKee</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-479088</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-479088</guid>
		<description>&#62; "This is a private networking group that doesn’t seem to want too many new members."

Don't most private networking groups find themselves not wanting to open up to thousands of people? If I played poker with my industry buddies every week, I doubt I'd be pleased if our group grew to be 4500 people. Kinda makes the group irrelevant, doesn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; &#8220;This is a private networking group that doesn’t seem to want too many new members.&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t most private networking groups find themselves not wanting to open up to thousands of people? If I played poker with my industry buddies every week, I doubt I&#8217;d be pleased if our group grew to be 4500 people. Kinda makes the group irrelevant, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478566</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478566</guid>
		<description>I think Facebook is different, but then again, I don't know how they announced.  Four years ago I was definitely NOT hanging out in a Harvard dorm with Mark Zuckerberg.  Facebook is (or was) a semi-closed group --&gt; if you were on the right campus, you could join.  This is a private networking group that doesn't seem to want too many new members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Facebook is different, but then again, I don&#8217;t know how they announced.  Four years ago I was definitely NOT hanging out in a Harvard dorm with Mark Zuckerberg.  Facebook is (or was) a semi-closed group &#8211;> if you were on the right campus, you could join.  This is a private networking group that doesn&#8217;t seem to want too many new members.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake McKee</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478538</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478538</guid>
		<description>Good point - but I fear that the announcement style (good, bad, indifferent) has thrown the discussion into a tailspin that has little to do with the actual activity. 

This group, like any social group, is only as good as its membership. They are hopefully limiting the group size to a manageable, reasonable amount of members, but I doubt that the 5 or 6 founding members is enough to really be helpful to the group at large. 

I think it's reasonable for them (beyond the kool kids vibe) to announce that they're having this organization. Hell, Facebook did the same when they launched, right? "We have this cool place to hang out, but only for college students". Seems to have worked out OK for them :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point - but I fear that the announcement style (good, bad, indifferent) has thrown the discussion into a tailspin that has little to do with the actual activity. </p>
<p>This group, like any social group, is only as good as its membership. They are hopefully limiting the group size to a manageable, reasonable amount of members, but I doubt that the 5 or 6 founding members is enough to really be helpful to the group at large. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s reasonable for them (beyond the kool kids vibe) to announce that they&#8217;re having this organization. Hell, Facebook did the same when they launched, right? &#8220;We have this cool place to hang out, but only for college students&#8221;. Seems to have worked out OK for them :)</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478498</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478498</guid>
		<description>Hey Jake,

Thanks for the viewpoint.  FWIW, I was part of Microsoft's online brigade back in 1992.  The company has been doing this kind of stuff for a very long time, and blogs are merely the next evolution.

I'll quote something you're no doubt familiar with, since you wrote it:

&lt;em&gt;And if these conversations need a bit of air cover (in the form of  privacy), then I’m all for it. Besides, it’s not the planning (private) that really matters, it’s the execution (public).&lt;/em&gt;

That's the big contradiction, really, isn't it?  A grand announcement (public) of a place for people to discuss behind closed doors (private).  If you want a private organization to share information on best practices, then by all means have one.  But unless your objective is to say "hey y'all, we're all part of the kool kids klub now", you wouldn't likely announce it with a press release, now would you?  

Inept, at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jake,</p>
<p>Thanks for the viewpoint.  FWIW, I was part of Microsoft&#8217;s online brigade back in 1992.  The company has been doing this kind of stuff for a very long time, and blogs are merely the next evolution.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll quote something you&#8217;re no doubt familiar with, since you wrote it:</p>
<p><em>And if these conversations need a bit of air cover (in the form of  privacy), then I’m all for it. Besides, it’s not the planning (private) that really matters, it’s the execution (public).</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the big contradiction, really, isn&#8217;t it?  A grand announcement (public) of a place for people to discuss behind closed doors (private).  If you want a private organization to share information on best practices, then by all means have one.  But unless your objective is to say &#8220;hey y&#8217;all, we&#8217;re all part of the kool kids klub now&#8221;, you wouldn&#8217;t likely announce it with a press release, now would you?  </p>
<p>Inept, at best.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake McKee</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478487</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478487</guid>
		<description>&#62; "Why is this happening now?  One word: desperation. "

Bull. It's happening now because the introductory phase is over. For the firms involved in the Council, the "let's just listen" phase is over, and it's onto the "we've been listening, now we're trying to figure out what to do with that new knowledge".

&#62; "You don't need a cozy little exclusive club to figure out what to do with blogs. "

Insulting description aside, brands of this size absolutely DO need a place to comfortably compare notes without a constant stream of criticism dogging them. Don't believe me? Reread your post. 

&#62; " Just get on the net, start talking to your customers and advocates, and start interacting with people outside the strictures of twentieth century command and control marketing."

You assume that these companies haven't been doing this already. Microsoft has how many corporate bloggers and has for how many years? Dell has been cranking along with their blogging efforts directly *because* they've already done what you're talking about. 

But then what? 

Getting started is the easy part, especially if your company never heard from you before. Listening IS the solution. But at some point, that becomes a given. At some point delivering minor feedback gives way to demands for major changes. If you think that listening alone will make that happen, (respectfully) you're deluded. 

Parents go to other parents and ask for feedback and ideas on child discipline. This doesn't happen in front of the children.

Managers go to other managers to ask for feedback and ideas on employee management. This doesn't happen in front of the employee.

Industry professionals ask other industry professionals for ideas and feedback. This doesn't happen in front of their boss.

Why do you believe that the ONLY solution when it comes to blogging is 100% access into the process?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; &#8220;Why is this happening now?  One word: desperation. &#8221;</p>
<p>Bull. It&#8217;s happening now because the introductory phase is over. For the firms involved in the Council, the &#8220;let&#8217;s just listen&#8221; phase is over, and it&#8217;s onto the &#8220;we&#8217;ve been listening, now we&#8217;re trying to figure out what to do with that new knowledge&#8221;.</p>
<p>&gt; &#8220;You don&#8217;t need a cozy little exclusive club to figure out what to do with blogs. &#8221;</p>
<p>Insulting description aside, brands of this size absolutely DO need a place to comfortably compare notes without a constant stream of criticism dogging them. Don&#8217;t believe me? Reread your post. </p>
<p>&gt; &#8221; Just get on the net, start talking to your customers and advocates, and start interacting with people outside the strictures of twentieth century command and control marketing.&#8221;</p>
<p>You assume that these companies haven&#8217;t been doing this already. Microsoft has how many corporate bloggers and has for how many years? Dell has been cranking along with their blogging efforts directly *because* they&#8217;ve already done what you&#8217;re talking about. </p>
<p>But then what? </p>
<p>Getting started is the easy part, especially if your company never heard from you before. Listening IS the solution. But at some point, that becomes a given. At some point delivering minor feedback gives way to demands for major changes. If you think that listening alone will make that happen, (respectfully) you&#8217;re deluded. </p>
<p>Parents go to other parents and ask for feedback and ideas on child discipline. This doesn&#8217;t happen in front of the children.</p>
<p>Managers go to other managers to ask for feedback and ideas on employee management. This doesn&#8217;t happen in front of the employee.</p>
<p>Industry professionals ask other industry professionals for ideas and feedback. This doesn&#8217;t happen in front of their boss.</p>
<p>Why do you believe that the ONLY solution when it comes to blogging is 100% access into the process?</p>
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		<title>By: Blogging for Business (B4B) Conference</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478296</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogging for Business (B4B) Conference</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-478296</guid>
		<description>[...] from Alec Saunders: &#8230;it&#8217;s also pathetic that the stewards of American business and some of the largest [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from Alec Saunders: &#8230;it&#8217;s also pathetic that the stewards of American business and some of the largest [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Some counsel for the Blog Council &#124; Shane Schick&#8217;s Computerworld</title>
		<link>http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-476856</link>
		<dc:creator>Some counsel for the Blog Council &#124; Shane Schick&#8217;s Computerworld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/2007/12/07/council-shmouncil/#comment-476856</guid>
		<description>[...] of the most prominent voices online â€“ including Robert Scoble, Jeff Jarvis and Canadaâ€™s own Alec Saunders â€“ were quick to offer their own critiques. Who needs such a thing, they wondered. What good could [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the most prominent voices online â€“ including Robert Scoble, Jeff Jarvis and Canadaâ€™s own Alec Saunders â€“ were quick to offer their own critiques. Who needs such a thing, they wondered. What good could [...]</p>
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