Comments on: The simple civility of an apology http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/ A daily round table on the tech industry with experts and callers from all over the globe. Join us as we pick apart the news and get to the meat of what\'s happening out there. Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:30:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-199091 Alec Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:28:31 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-199091 Thanks Frank. The background certainly helps clarify. Thanks Frank. The background certainly helps clarify.

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-199090 Alec Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:28:01 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-199090 Hey Bert, Of COURSE I read Kathy's post (and there's more to it than what you quoted). I recommend that you now go and check out what Jeneane ACTUALLY wrote about Meankids -- there's one 3 word sentence on her blog Allied, and a silly reference on her satirical site Kat Herding. Celebrate, encourage? From where? Her hospital bed? Want to help heal the blogosphere? Screw the pantywaists who want a code of conduct, and start by being accountable for your own words. Start with an apology for smearing the wrong person! Hey Bert,

Of COURSE I read Kathy’s post (and there’s more to it than what you quoted). I recommend that you now go and check out what Jeneane ACTUALLY wrote about Meankids — there’s one 3 word sentence on her blog Allied, and a silly reference on her satirical site Kat Herding. Celebrate, encourage? From where? Her hospital bed?

Want to help heal the blogosphere? Screw the pantywaists who want a code of conduct, and start by being accountable for your own words. Start with an apology for smearing the wrong person!

]]> By: Frank Paynter http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198983 Frank Paynter Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:25:49 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198983 Kathy wrote to Jeneane and me on March 15 (in response to my offer to pull the post that was troubling her). Here is some of that exchange: I said: "If you want that post deleted, I'll see that it is pulled, but I would rather not. Like other obscenities, it will move off the screen soon enough. Tell me if you can bear it, or if you would rather that I pulled it." She said: "I don't mind being a target of the mean kids, and it SHOULD be an anything goes environment, so I definitely don't want it deleted." There was more related to an unidentified commenter and ultimately I provided her with his IP address. It's my understanding that this was not one of the threatening IP addresses that she had collected from trolls on her own blog. I'm starting to be concerned for Bert and Kathy and the fixation they seem to have on these matters. Reputations have undoubtedly been damaged. I think a simple apology to Jeneane should suffice. And I would like to apologize to the author of the post, which wasn't in the least bit misogynistic or obscene, though the comment about noose and neck size that was associated with the post made it seem so. Kathy wrote to Jeneane and me on March 15 (in response to my offer to pull the post that was troubling her). Here is some of that exchange:

I said:

“If you want that post deleted, I’ll see that it is pulled, but I would rather not. Like other obscenities, it will move off the screen soon enough.

Tell me if you can bear it, or if you would rather that I pulled it.”

She said:

“I don’t mind being a target of the mean kids, and it SHOULD be an anything goes environment, so I definitely don’t want it deleted.”

There was more related to an unidentified commenter and ultimately I provided her with his IP address. It’s my understanding that this was not one of the threatening IP addresses that she had collected from trolls on her own blog.

I’m starting to be concerned for Bert and Kathy and the fixation they seem to have on these matters. Reputations have undoubtedly been damaged. I think a simple apology to Jeneane should suffice.

And I would like to apologize to the author of the post, which wasn’t in the least bit misogynistic or obscene, though the comment about noose and neck size that was associated with the post made it seem so.

]]> By: Bert Bates http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198800 Bert Bates Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:57:29 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198800 Alec, Did you carefully read Kathy's post? It's become clear that a lot of people who have been talking about this haven't actually read it. Here's a direct quote from Kathy's post: "I do not want to be part of a culture of such hypocrisy where Jeneane Sessum can be a prominent member of blogher, a speaker at industry conferences, an outspoken advocate for women's rights, and at the same time celebrate and encourage a site like meankids -- where objectification of women is taken to a level that makes plain old porn seem quaintly sweet." Where's the innuendo and character assasination in that? I'd ask you to read my previous post again and explain to me how the act of reporting what Jeneane posted on her own site amounts to character assasination? Alec,

Did you carefully read Kathy’s post? It’s become clear that a lot of people who have been talking about this haven’t actually read it. Here’s a direct quote from Kathy’s post:

“I do not want to be part of a culture of such hypocrisy where Jeneane Sessum can be a prominent member of blogher, a speaker at industry conferences, an outspoken advocate for women’s rights, and at the same time celebrate and encourage a site like meankids — where objectification of women is taken to a level that makes plain old porn seem quaintly sweet.”

Where’s the innuendo and character assasination in that? I’d ask you to read my previous post again and explain to me how the act of reporting what Jeneane posted on her own site amounts to character assasination?

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198771 Alec Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:20:07 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198771 When did you stop beating your wife, Bert? Oh sorry... I didn't realize... Innuendo, character assassination... I dunno, I figure there's plenty to apologize for. When did you stop beating your wife, Bert? Oh sorry… I didn’t realize…

Innuendo, character assassination… I dunno, I figure there’s plenty to apologize for.

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198759 Alec Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:01:20 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198759 Steve -- point taken. I've modified the text. Steve — point taken. I’ve modified the text.

]]> By: steve http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198672 steve Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:45:20 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198672 Alec, I think "Accounts had been hacked, and the malice perpetrated by anonymous hackers.” is pretty much a paradigm example of a conspiracy theory. And while it may be true - and I understand why you believe it is - it is by no means a proven fact. There's a big difference between believing in Herrel's innocence and promulgating his version of events as the undeniable truth. Even Doc Searls doesn't go that far. Alec, I think “Accounts had been hacked, and the malice perpetrated by anonymous hackers.” is pretty much a paradigm example of a conspiracy theory. And while it may be true - and I understand why you believe it is - it is by no means a proven fact. There’s a big difference between believing in Herrel’s innocence and promulgating his version of events as the undeniable truth. Even Doc Searls doesn’t go that far.

]]> By: Bert Bates http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198645 Bert Bates Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:13:16 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198645 Let's for the moment, hypothetically, say that Alan got hacked. How does that relate to Jeneane? Jeneane's blog enthusiastically commented on and linked to meankids and unclebob. Jeneane's blog continued to link to those sites even after Kathy wrote to Jeneane, 10 days before Kathy's post, telling Jeneane about what was on the site. All that Kathy said was that Jeneane celebrated those sites. Now exactly what should Kathy apologize for? Anyone could have seen the encouragement on Jeneane's site, followed the links, and found those horrible posts and comments. Let’s for the moment, hypothetically, say that Alan got hacked. How does that relate to Jeneane? Jeneane’s blog enthusiastically commented on and linked to meankids and unclebob. Jeneane’s blog continued to link to those sites even after Kathy wrote to Jeneane, 10 days before Kathy’s post, telling Jeneane about what was on the site. All that Kathy said was that Jeneane celebrated those sites. Now exactly what should Kathy apologize for? Anyone could have seen the encouragement on Jeneane’s site, followed the links, and found those horrible posts and comments.

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198365 Alec Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:16:29 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198365 It's perhaps not clear enough for conspiracy theorists, Steve, but it's clear enough for me. Raving Lunacy, his blog, dated back to Sept of 2003. You can either accept that identity theft is the reason for his complete absence from the net, or not. For me, it's pretty far fetched to imagine that he would choose a faked identity theft, and universal condemnation as his way to bow out of the blogosphere and the entire internet. It’s perhaps not clear enough for conspiracy theorists, Steve, but it’s clear enough for me. Raving Lunacy, his blog, dated back to Sept of 2003. You can either accept that identity theft is the reason for his complete absence from the net, or not. For me, it’s pretty far fetched to imagine that he would choose a faked identity theft, and universal condemnation as his way to bow out of the blogosphere and the entire internet.

]]> By: steve http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198005 steve Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:44:18 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/04/10/the-simple-civility-of-an-apology/#comment-198005 "What's clear now is that the accusations made were incorrect. Accounts had been hacked, and the malice perpetrated by anonymous hackers." In what way is this "clear"? Herrell (if it was indeed him) sent one email to Doc Searls claiming identity theft, but AFAIK not one shred of evidence has been provided in support of that claim. So, how is it "clear" that that's what really happened? “What’s clear now is that the accusations made were incorrect. Accounts had been hacked, and the malice perpetrated by anonymous hackers.”

In what way is this “clear”? Herrell (if it was indeed him) sent one email to Doc Searls claiming identity theft, but AFAIK not one shred of evidence has been provided in support of that claim. So, how is it “clear” that that’s what really happened?

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