http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/ A daily round table on the tech industry with experts and callers from all over the globe. Join us as we pick apart the news and get to the meat of what\'s happening out there. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:35:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/#comment-48656 Paul Jardine Fri, 06 Oct 2006 07:07:11 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/#comment-48656 Yes, at a technical level XMPP does, kind of, cover it with JEP-0060 and JEP-0163, but the first one is pretty 'top-heavy' and I haven't looked much at the lightweight one yet. If you were going to do a 'presence/identity' application like I describe, you would have to build a lot of stuff to simplify the underlying Jabber model for the user. I still haven't found a Jabber implementation I like (e.g. Gush, Psi, Kopete etc), except perhaps, GoogleTalk, though I rarely use it except on my Nokia 770. I tried a while back (before the revision of JEP-0060) to design a 'proper' presence model around XMPP, but after a lot of thought I decided it wouldn't work well enough. I might revisit some of the ideas with the JEP-0163 proposal, but I think, in the end, Atom/RSS/GoogleData might be a better solution. Yes, at a technical level XMPP does, kind of, cover it with JEP-0060 and JEP-0163, but the first one is pretty ‘top-heavy’ and I haven’t looked much at the lightweight one yet.
If you were going to do a ‘presence/identity’ application like I describe, you would have to build a lot of stuff to simplify the underlying Jabber model for the user. I still haven’t found a Jabber implementation I like (e.g. Gush, Psi, Kopete etc), except perhaps, GoogleTalk, though I rarely use it except on my Nokia 770.
I tried a while back (before the revision of JEP-0060) to design a ‘proper’ presence model around XMPP, but after a lot of thought I decided it wouldn’t work well enough. I might revisit some of the ideas with the JEP-0163 proposal, but I think, in the end, Atom/RSS/GoogleData might be a better solution.

]]> http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/#comment-48495 Alec Thu, 05 Oct 2006 10:42:52 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/#comment-48495 Paul, I think what you're describing conceptually makes sense. The problem with most presence systems (including SIP/SIMPLE) is their simple watcher / presentity model. What's needed is to have different presentities for different watchers. I understand that XMPP does this, but haven't investigated it deeply yet. Paul, I think what you’re describing conceptually makes sense. The problem with most presence systems (including SIP/SIMPLE) is their simple watcher / presentity model. What’s needed is to have different presentities for different watchers. I understand that XMPP does this, but haven’t investigated it deeply yet.

]]> http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/#comment-48467 Paul Jardine Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:31:33 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/10/03/martin-geddes-its-like-putting-a-toilet-and-paddling-pool-in-the-kitchen/#comment-48467 I fail to see how the presence model he describes is any more broken on mobile than it is on 'always-on' ADSL broadband. Presence breaks when it is not aware of what people are actually doing, and I think it is more about how we present ourselves to others. If I think futuristically, what I would really want from a 'presence' application is a whole set of RSS feeds that are linked to my thoughts, movements, physiology and (perhaps later) senses. Each feed is available to a set of people (or entities) that changes according to my mood, context, relationships and needs. It really shouldn't matter whether the point of delivery is mobile or fixed. But perhaps I'm really talking about Identity...sometimes it's hard to know. I fail to see how the presence model he describes is any more broken on mobile than it is on ‘always-on’ ADSL broadband.
Presence breaks when it is not aware of what people are actually doing, and I think it is more about how we present ourselves to others.
If I think futuristically, what I would really want from a ‘presence’ application is a whole set of RSS feeds that are linked to my thoughts, movements, physiology and (perhaps later) senses. Each feed is available to a set of people (or entities) that changes according to my mood, context, relationships and needs. It really shouldn’t matter whether the point of delivery is mobile or fixed.
But perhaps I’m really talking about Identity…sometimes it’s hard to know.

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