Comments on: Detente in IM’s Cold War? http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/ A daily round table on the tech industry with experts and callers from all over the globe. Join us as we pick apart the news and get to the meat of what\'s happening out there. Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:09:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: VON: IM and Presence Round Table -- Alec Saunders .LOG http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-41316 VON: IM and Presence Round Table -- Alec Saunders .LOG Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:04:23 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-41316 [...] Microsoft’s Dan Casey talks about opening up the MSN and Yahoo! networks to each other.  It’s a hard problem.  Jeff Bonforte jumps in and says “we don’t want to recreate the mess of SMTP on IM”.  He’s raising the spectre of SPIM.  A cynic might say that he’s simply trying to protect his walled garden.  Ragui joins in and makes the same point.  Jazayeri notes that pairwise agreements can’t scale (yes!), and makes the case for industry standards.   He makes the very rational case that perhaps SPIM and security issues will emerge, but the only sensible solution is  to work through them as an industry.  I agree.  Frankly, I don’t think most customers want to hear about another interop agreement.  Users don’t want to be locked into the gulags of Soviet IM-Istan anymore!  [...] [...] Microsoft’s Dan Casey talks about opening up the MSN and Yahoo! networks to each other.  It’s a hard problem.  Jeff Bonforte jumps in and says “we don’t want to recreate the mess of SMTP on IM”.  He’s raising the spectre of SPIM.  A cynic might say that he’s simply trying to protect his walled garden.  Ragui joins in and makes the same point.  Jazayeri notes that pairwise agreements can’t scale (yes!), and makes the case for industry standards.   He makes the very rational case that perhaps SPIM and security issues will emerge, but the only sensible solution is  to work through them as an industry.  I agree.  Frankly, I don’t think most customers want to hear about another interop agreement.  Users don’t want to be locked into the gulags of Soviet IM-Istan anymore!  [...]

]]> By: Tomasz Tybulewicz » Archiwum » Skype + jabber? http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-35047 Tomasz Tybulewicz » Archiwum » Skype + jabber? Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:34:55 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-35047 [...] Swoje przemyÅ›lenia na temat caÅ‚ej umowy zamieszczono też na SkypeJournal poÅ‚ożono tam nacisk na inne punkty umowy (jak doÅ‚Ä…czanie paska narzÄ™dziowego Google do instalacji Skype) i przypomniano artykuÅ‚ o zimnej wojnie na rynku komunikatorów w którym napisano że to Skype powinien przejąć paÅ‚eczkÄ™ w tworzeniu i narzucaniu protokołów komunikacji bezpoÅ›reniej - ciekawe zdanie w dyskusji, prawda? [...] [...] Swoje przemyÅ›lenia na temat caÅ‚ej umowy zamieszczono też na SkypeJournal poÅ‚ożono tam nacisk na inne punkty umowy (jak doÅ‚Ä…czanie paska narzÄ™dziowego Google do instalacji Skype) i przypomniano artykuÅ‚ o zimnej wojnie na rynku komunikatorów w którym napisano że to Skype powinien przejąć paÅ‚eczkÄ™ w tworzeniu i narzucaniu protokołów komunikacji bezpoÅ›reniej - ciekawe zdanie w dyskusji, prawda? [...]

]]> By: rajiv http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-31804 rajiv Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:22:09 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-31804 Respected Sir, If you check gtalk messages through ethereal software, It will not show u actual message body ,or all XMMP headers, tags. Now gtalk messenger is sending messages in a encrypted format for new versions of gtalk messenger. Please let me know if anyone of u knows, which encryption method gtalk is using. I m not sure that they r encrypting messages, may b they r using diff protocol or dif messages format.But it sends messages to goowy messenger in xmmp format. means u can see the messagees sent to goowy, through the ethereal software. Please give me information about, what changes they have made to gtalk messenger, which encryption method they r using.. Respected Sir,

If you check gtalk messages through ethereal software, It will not show u actual message body
,or all XMMP headers, tags. Now gtalk messenger is sending messages in a encrypted format for new
versions of gtalk messenger.
Please let me know if anyone of u knows, which encryption method gtalk is using.

I m not sure that they r encrypting messages, may b they r using diff protocol or dif messages format.But it sends messages to goowy messenger in xmmp format. means u can see the messagees sent to goowy, through the ethereal software.
Please give me information about, what changes they have made to gtalk messenger,
which encryption method they r using..

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-25050 Alec Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:32:17 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-25050 Agreed Julian. Apples are very easy to confuse with Oranges in this environment. Agreed Julian. Apples are very easy to confuse with Oranges in this environment.

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-25049 Alec Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:31:29 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-25049 Rick - I tend to take a pretty pragmatic view to standards. They are useful so long as deployed in sufficient numbers that developers want to target them. XMPP is definitely a standard, but it's got a very small following. Hence, my call for Skype to standardize their protocol (which has a large following). Rick - I tend to take a pretty pragmatic view to standards. They are useful so long as deployed in sufficient numbers that developers want to target them. XMPP is definitely a standard, but it’s got a very small following. Hence, my call for Skype to standardize their protocol (which has a large following).

]]> By: Anonymous http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24994 Anonymous Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:53:57 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24994 If LCS and SIMPLE are the building blocks for fedaration, then we're screwed. SIMPLE is anything but simple, a mess of a protocol where no two implementations seem capable of anything more than very basic presence and message exchange. XMPP is the only protocol with proven federation and interop, and events like the livejournal.com launch with XMPP prove that it does have momentum. Guess we'll see what happens. :) If LCS and SIMPLE are the building blocks for fedaration, then we’re screwed. SIMPLE is anything but simple, a mess of a protocol where no two implementations seem capable of anything more than very basic presence and message exchange. XMPP is the only protocol with proven federation and interop, and events like the livejournal.com launch with XMPP prove that it does have momentum. Guess we’ll see what happens. :)

]]> By: Julian Bond http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24992 Julian Bond Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:11:35 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24992 Let's be careful here that we're comparing apples and not apples with oranges. Some of this is to do with voice, some video, some chat and some presence. - The MSN-YM! linkup is chat only. - GTalk and LibJingle opened up the possibility of voice interop between GTalk, Jabber, AIM, iChat, Trillian, Gaim. But we're still waiting for any real code. In the 9 months since the announcement, Skype have shipped several point releases, numerous bug fixes and several major enhancements. The winner in this game is going to be the one that consistently ships early, ships often and keeps innovating. The only one of all the players who seem to be able to do this is Skype. - MSN-YM! are claiming 350M accounts. Using the same methods of counting, Skype is somewhere between 50 and 100M. The only player in this game being reasonably honest about numbers is Skype with their members online figure. Let’s be careful here that we’re comparing apples and not apples with oranges. Some of this is to do with voice, some video, some chat and some presence.

- The MSN-YM! linkup is chat only.

- GTalk and LibJingle opened up the possibility of voice interop between GTalk, Jabber, AIM, iChat, Trillian, Gaim. But we’re still waiting for any real code. In the 9 months since the announcement, Skype have shipped several point releases, numerous bug fixes and several major enhancements. The winner in this game is going to be the one that consistently ships early, ships often and keeps innovating. The only one of all the players who seem to be able to do this is Skype.

- MSN-YM! are claiming 350M accounts. Using the same methods of counting, Skype is somewhere between 50 and 100M. The only player in this game being reasonably honest about numbers is Skype with their members online figure.

]]> By: Rick http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24973 Rick Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:14:33 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24973 Alec, aren't you contradicting your entire argument for openness when criticize Google for using XMPP, an IETF open standard. Skype has brand name and Google doesn't? Why didn't Nokia select Skype instead of Google for the 770? I don't understand you're comments. Alec, aren’t you contradicting your entire argument for openness when criticize Google for using XMPP, an IETF open standard.

Skype has brand name and Google doesn’t? Why didn’t Nokia select Skype instead of Google for the 770? I don’t understand you’re comments.

]]> By: Twilight in the Valley of the Nerds » Blog Archive » IM Interoperability: It’s Not a Technology Issue http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24757 Twilight in the Valley of the Nerds » Blog Archive » IM Interoperability: It’s Not a Technology Issue Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:17:51 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24757 [...] What’s interesting is any and all of these services could interoperate with one another technically today. Yes, the technology to facilitate such interoperability exists today, as Alec Saunders points out. It hasn’t happened yet, because the vendors, especially the market leaders, don’t want it to happen. They don’t perceive interoperability, much less standards-based IM, to be in their interests. Not surprisingly, it’s all about control of the customer. AOL wants to lock its IM customers into community, Microsoft wants to restrict its subscribers to MSN or Live.com, and Yahoo wants to discourage its subscribers from venturing beyond the Yahoo portal and related communities. Privately, representatives of these companies will tell you the bitter truth — as they’ve told me on more than one occasion — but that’s not the sort of content that gets into press releases. [...] [...] What’s interesting is any and all of these services could interoperate with one another technically today. Yes, the technology to facilitate such interoperability exists today, as Alec Saunders points out. It hasn’t happened yet, because the vendors, especially the market leaders, don’t want it to happen. They don’t perceive interoperability, much less standards-based IM, to be in their interests. Not surprisingly, it’s all about control of the customer. AOL wants to lock its IM customers into community, Microsoft wants to restrict its subscribers to MSN or Live.com, and Yahoo wants to discourage its subscribers from venturing beyond the Yahoo portal and related communities. Privately, representatives of these companies will tell you the bitter truth — as they’ve told me on more than one occasion — but that’s not the sort of content that gets into press releases. [...]

]]> By: Alec http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24754 Alec Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:12:30 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2006/07/14/detente-in-ims-cold-war/#comment-24754 It will certainly be interesting to see what they do over the next few weeks. I think this is a huge opportunity. It will certainly be interesting to see what they do over the next few weeks. I think this is a huge opportunity.

]]>